I've been long enough around Wordpress that i am comfortable to start putting up sites for clients. But i have little to no experience about the price for a project like this. I obviously dont want to get too expensive and not too cheap.
I would like some of your input for the price range for the project.
Here are screens for the final design as far as i was told:
Screens
Thanks for your time and input on this!
And this is the sitemap:
DOBRODOŠLI(home)
NOVICE - SREČNO 2013
O NAS (category: O NAS)
MI SMO (article PREDSTAVIMO SE)
ZGODOVINA (article POGLED NAZAJ)
Wordpress sites don't carry much value as they are simply templates. Google doesn't give web designers brownie points for using them, nor do they frown upon them. Google see's them as "just being there." If you create an original design of your own, Google will grade your site much higher than some template that 100,000 other websites use. Matt Cutts has stated this himself. Also, when sites are built on a template this kills their resale value. I could most likely sell my newest website for a ton of money, because there is nothing else in the world like it. A big factor when appraising the value of a website/domain is not just the originality of the sites content, but the site itself. Design is worth money! A template on the web is worthless, even if you make changes to it.
Wordpress templates are analogous to trailer homes in that they all look the same, and they're all worthless. Nonetheless I do use Wordpress, just not for my real websites, but more for blogging purposes. By the way, I don't live in a trailer park.
I would have to disagree with @djdaniel150. Technically, a template like Starkers is custom as most people will not have the same layout and/or content. I don't really see how templates (which mostly have to do with layout) have anything to do with how Google ranks your site. It just doesn't seem logical.
It does seem logical. 100,000 sites with all the same layout and appearance? Think about it. Matt Cutts stated that original design and content is favored by Google on his Youtube videos. I was simply reiterating what he stated.
@djdaniel150, you're assuming everybody uses the same cookie cutter WP templates. Templates like _s and Thematic are designed to maintain the WP file structure but be an empty canvas for designers.
I'm sorry, I just don't see how Google's algorithm would rely on appearance in some way to rank a site. From what I've seen over the years it appears it relies on relevant content and semantic structure.
We used to rely on meta keywords and descriptions to rank our site. That's not the case anymore so perhaps you're reading/watching old content.
@djdaniel150 you love to absolutely position all of your elements on websites.
I personally would not pay a tonne of money for that. Nor would I pay a tonne of money for a template that has just been uploaded to the themes folder and activated. What I would pay good money for is using a bare bones theme such as starkers or underscores. Taking a static design in plain HTML and CSS and converting that into a fully working wordpress website. Like most developers tend to do.
You seriously need to look up some stuff about the google algorithm, how in the hell would it rank a page differently based on its layout...
Hey guys! Thanks for your input. I also agree there is little design here. Can someone also throw a number. Our average income in Slovenia is around 1000€/month, thats 1300$/month.
Have this in mind when you put a price. Would be really helpful for me.
Thanks again!
@watson My point exactly! I wouldn't pay a bunch of money for somebody's site they simply built on a template that anyone can use. Also, I never stated that Google would rank a page differently based on its layout. I stated that they aren't going to favor a site that shares the same exact theme and layout as a bunch of other websites on the internet. That's what I stated. Once again I saw Matt Cutts say in a video on youtube, "your site should have an original design and original content." I am simply reiterating what he stated. Its his words, not mine. As far as what attributes Google will actually rank a site for, who knows, since they don't disclose most of them to anyone. There are several hundred factors they take into account when evaluating a website.
And yes I do use absolute positioning to build my sites, and they work great. If you don't like it, thats your problem.
@supperman You are thinking about this all wrong in my opinion. What you're suggesting is either have someone make up a price or base your price on someone else's calculated rates.
At the end of the day, all your work has to balance out into some kind of revenue per hour. It's not even about average income. What you really need to do is figure out what the rates look like in Slovenia per hour for technical/web/programming work, and try and be sensitive to your skill level. That's the only way you can create a price that makes sense.
I can. But there is a market for everything and i dont know the market. For example: I sure know that if ill try to sell my 15 old Fiat Punto for 20.000€, no one is going to buy it, because I know the market and it wont allow it to sell this high.
The problem is i dont know the markets price range for this kind of work.
edit:
I dont do this project directly for the customer, but for a webdesign company as sub-worker (dont know the right word).
@supperman Never give a price up front, but rather a range. A lot of time people will start wanting more and more after you've already begun the project, yet they don't want to pay more. I stopped making websites for others years ago because people are too cheap, they want their sites for free! There's better ways to make money online, like "cost per click" or affiliate ads.
Don't try and charge what the market can bear. It may sound like a good idea and you might make a little extra money, but it does not work very well for a long term strategy, especially for individual contractors. When people see that you charge fairly, and it's consistent, and they can trust your method of determining your pricing, you become more valuable as a partner to them. If you pick numbers out of the air because that's what people can get for it, you lose credibility because you can never quite explain why you charge what you charge and it goes all over the map (don't forget business owners talk to each other).
If you're accepting clients, you're in the professional area and that amount is low enough to only get those who want to pay $100 or less for a site. That won't get you anywhere.
If you're wanting to learn how to interact with clients, do it for free for non-profit/charities.
True to some point. But I must start at something. Better than have lots of work and do it cheap and get live experience. Or have little to no work and have little to no live experience and just read blogs and do tutorials etc.
People in india do the same jobs Americans do for $9.00 an hour that otherwise would pay $25.00 an hour here. This is why all of our jobs are outsourced now and Americans can't find jobs. Its also another reason I'm self employed, I can't get laid off or fired. If your self employed you also get paid much more. I made $100.00 an hour repairing computers, who would pay that today? No one. If you repair PC's at best buy you might make like $12.00 an hour. Pointless. Supperman has the right idea, regardless of how much he's making, atleast he's independent.
Let's look at the products that have already been created; Twitter, MailChimp, Treehouse, Webtype, Typekit, Basecamp, Dribbble, CodePen (pro version), Gimme Bar, Dropbox, businesses like ThemeZilla, etc.
Thanks for giving me some alternative ideas for thinking in other directions.
But I have to come up with hours of work and price in aprox 10 hours tho. Time here is 1.30 in the morning. deadline is 12h noon.
I wont bang my head on this one all night, dont get me wrong. I just wanted you guys shoot out some numbers.
A no-brainer of some sort.
The problem is that a price requires a bunch of different variables like: experience, quality of work, local market, client market, number of templates, complexity of templates, browser compatability, custom solutions, etc.
For WordPress projects you should focus on templates and not total number of pages. Once you create the 'Page' template, you're not going to have to build it again. So if the user wants to have 100 pages, that's not a development issue (though it is an issue if you are also entering content, so keep that in mind as well).
Unfortunately, nobody can tell you what to charge! If you're just starting out, you'll need to do a few projects before you really find out what you should be charging. Most people charge too little when they are first starting out because they are nervous about scaring prospective clients away with big estimates. This eventually changes when you finish a project and think, "Well, that wasn't worth it." Next time you'll know to charge more.
If you think that this entire project will take you 12 hours to complete, then the simplest formula is:
12 hours x {Your Hourly Rate} = Project Cost
For example, I charge at a rate of $50/hr. So for me it would be:
12 x $50 = $600
For me, it's not particularly worth to get into an entire project for $600 (since I don't freelance full time), so I'd probably charge more to make it worth my time.
I agree with @TheDoc but my rate is a bit different as I am a Letterer not a Developer. Like him, I have a fixed hourly rate that is based on my cost of living (not luxuries). I charge that client my hourly rate for the time it takes me to complete the project + profit. I also charge for licensing as well if needed.
Hello!
I've been long enough around Wordpress that i am comfortable to start putting up sites for clients. But i have little to no experience about the price for a project like this. I obviously dont want to get too expensive and not too cheap.
I would like some of your input for the price range for the project.
Here are screens for the final design as far as i was told: Screens
Thanks for your time and input on this!
And this is the sitemap: DOBRODOŠLI(home) NOVICE - SREČNO 2013
O NAS (category: O NAS) MI SMO (article PREDSTAVIMO SE) ZGODOVINA (article POGLED NAZAJ)
STORITVE (category: CELOVITE KOMUNIKACIJE) SEJMI (article: OBLIKUJEMO PROSTOR) OGLAŠEVANJE (article: PIŠEMO ZGODBE) OBLIKOVANJE (article: BARVAMO PLOSKVE) IZOBRAŽEVANJE (article: ŠIRIMO ZNANJE)
PROJEKTI (category:PUSTILI SMO SLEDI) BISOL(article) BREST(article) BTS COMPANY(article) DRSC(article) ERICSSON(article) DORMEO(article) FAR(article) GORENJE ORODJARNA(article) GOODYEAR DUNLOP SAVA TYRES(article) HELIOS(article) JAPTI(article) JAVNA AGENCIJA ZA KNJIGO(article) JUTEKS(article) KMS(article) KRES(article) KRKA(article) KOVINOPLASTIKA(article) MAGPHARM(article) MLADINSKA KNIGA(article) MOL(article) PIVOVARNA LAŠKO(article) RRA POSAVJE(article) SELTRON(article) SIEMENS(article) SIMOBIL SLOVENSKA TURISTIČNA ORGANIZACIJA(article) SLOVENSKA SKUPNOST NARAVNIH ZDRAVILIŠČ(article) TERMOMAX(article) THERMOINTERNATIONAL(article)
TRIMO(article)
STIKI (category:VABIMO NA OSMICO) ZEMLJEVID (link na google maps)
HITRI KONTAKT (category) MAIL TELEFON
In the screenshots there is very little content so probably not much.
I agree with @chrisburton theres too much white space.
Wordpress sites don't carry much value as they are simply templates. Google doesn't give web designers brownie points for using them, nor do they frown upon them. Google see's them as "just being there." If you create an original design of your own, Google will grade your site much higher than some template that 100,000 other websites use. Matt Cutts has stated this himself. Also, when sites are built on a template this kills their resale value. I could most likely sell my newest website for a ton of money, because there is nothing else in the world like it. A big factor when appraising the value of a website/domain is not just the originality of the sites content, but the site itself. Design is worth money! A template on the web is worthless, even if you make changes to it.
Wordpress templates are analogous to trailer homes in that they all look the same, and they're all worthless. Nonetheless I do use Wordpress, just not for my real websites, but more for blogging purposes. By the way, I don't live in a trailer park.
@djdaniel150 the design income comes from development of the templates not the deployment in circumstances like wordpress.
I would have to disagree with @djdaniel150. Technically, a template like Starkers is custom as most people will not have the same layout and/or content. I don't really see how templates (which mostly have to do with layout) have anything to do with how Google ranks your site. It just doesn't seem logical.
It does seem logical. 100,000 sites with all the same layout and appearance? Think about it. Matt Cutts stated that original design and content is favored by Google on his Youtube videos. I was simply reiterating what he stated.
@djdaniel150, you're assuming everybody uses the same cookie cutter WP templates. Templates like _s and Thematic are designed to maintain the WP file structure but be an empty canvas for designers.
I'm sorry, I just don't see how Google's algorithm would rely on appearance in some way to rank a site. From what I've seen over the years it appears it relies on relevant content and semantic structure.
We used to rely on meta keywords and descriptions to rank our site. That's not the case anymore so perhaps you're reading/watching old content.
I'm not telling you what to believe.
@djdaniel150 - you do know that you can build your own WP templates, right?
@djdaniel150 you love to absolutely position all of your elements on websites.
I personally would not pay a tonne of money for that. Nor would I pay a tonne of money for a template that has just been uploaded to the themes folder and activated. What I would pay good money for is using a bare bones theme such as starkers or underscores. Taking a static design in plain HTML and CSS and converting that into a fully working wordpress website. Like most developers tend to do.
You seriously need to look up some stuff about the google algorithm, how in the hell would it rank a page differently based on its layout...
Hey guys! Thanks for your input. I also agree there is little design here. Can someone also throw a number. Our average income in Slovenia is around 1000€/month, thats 1300$/month. Have this in mind when you put a price. Would be really helpful for me. Thanks again!
I'm not very good at marketing but I'd gess £80 - £120 would be sort of right. Sorry if you are in America but I'm in britan so I use £ not $ sorry.
Thanks @Htmlmainiac
@htmlmainiac 80-120, what? Per hour or for the whole project?
I would certainly pay more for that site, even if it lacks content.
@supperman Why do you care what other people would price it at? You can determine your value without anyone else doing that for you.
@watson My point exactly! I wouldn't pay a bunch of money for somebody's site they simply built on a template that anyone can use. Also, I never stated that Google would rank a page differently based on its layout. I stated that they aren't going to favor a site that shares the same exact theme and layout as a bunch of other websites on the internet. That's what I stated. Once again I saw Matt Cutts say in a video on youtube, "your site should have an original design and original content." I am simply reiterating what he stated. Its his words, not mine. As far as what attributes Google will actually rank a site for, who knows, since they don't disclose most of them to anyone. There are several hundred factors they take into account when evaluating a website.
And yes I do use absolute positioning to build my sites, and they work great. If you don't like it, thats your problem.
@supperman You are thinking about this all wrong in my opinion. What you're suggesting is either have someone make up a price or base your price on someone else's calculated rates.
At the end of the day, all your work has to balance out into some kind of revenue per hour. It's not even about average income. What you really need to do is figure out what the rates look like in Slovenia per hour for technical/web/programming work, and try and be sensitive to your skill level. That's the only way you can create a price that makes sense.
I can. But there is a market for everything and i dont know the market. For example: I sure know that if ill try to sell my 15 old Fiat Punto for 20.000€, no one is going to buy it, because I know the market and it wont allow it to sell this high. The problem is i dont know the markets price range for this kind of work.
edit: I dont do this project directly for the customer, but for a webdesign company as sub-worker (dont know the right word).
@djdaniel150
"
If you create an original design of your own, Google will grade your site much higher than some template that 100,000 other websites use."Not in so many words but you pretty much said that.
"
Also, I never stated that Google would rank a page differently based on its layout."@supperman Never give a price up front, but rather a range. A lot of time people will start wanting more and more after you've already begun the project, yet they don't want to pay more. I stopped making websites for others years ago because people are too cheap, they want their sites for free! There's better ways to make money online, like "cost per click" or affiliate ads.
Don't try and charge what the market can bear. It may sound like a good idea and you might make a little extra money, but it does not work very well for a long term strategy, especially for individual contractors. When people see that you charge fairly, and it's consistent, and they can trust your method of determining your pricing, you become more valuable as a partner to them. If you pick numbers out of the air because that's what people can get for it, you lose credibility because you can never quite explain why you charge what you charge and it goes all over the map (don't forget business owners talk to each other).
I charge 8€/hour for work. I think this is the cheapest rate.
That is incredibly low. Probably the lowest I've ever seen.
Students here work for 6€/hour or less and for real programming! edit: As i said, income is 1300$/month - that is in dollars.
Lets say i make this site in a day and a half. That would be 12hours + 8€/h = 96€ (124$).
If you're accepting clients, you're in the professional area and that amount is low enough to only get those who want to pay $100 or less for a site. That won't get you anywhere.
If you're wanting to learn how to interact with clients, do it for free for non-profit/charities.
True to some point. But I must start at something. Better than have lots of work and do it cheap and get live experience. Or have little to no work and have little to no live experience and just read blogs and do tutorials etc.
People in india do the same jobs Americans do for $9.00 an hour that otherwise would pay $25.00 an hour here. This is why all of our jobs are outsourced now and Americans can't find jobs. Its also another reason I'm self employed, I can't get laid off or fired. If your self employed you also get paid much more. I made $100.00 an hour repairing computers, who would pay that today? No one. If you repair PC's at best buy you might make like $12.00 an hour. Pointless. Supperman has the right idea, regardless of how much he's making, atleast he's independent.
You don't need clients to show you're valuable. You can create your own products that generate income.
@chrisburton what do you have in mind?
Let's look at the products that have already been created; Twitter, MailChimp, Treehouse, Webtype, Typekit, Basecamp, Dribbble, CodePen (pro version), Gimme Bar, Dropbox, businesses like ThemeZilla, etc.
Thanks for giving me some alternative ideas for thinking in other directions. But I have to come up with hours of work and price in aprox 10 hours tho. Time here is 1.30 in the morning. deadline is 12h noon. I wont bang my head on this one all night, dont get me wrong. I just wanted you guys shoot out some numbers. A no-brainer of some sort.
How can we? We don't know your abilities or skill level or your cost of living.
The problem is that a price requires a bunch of different variables like: experience, quality of work, local market, client market, number of templates, complexity of templates, browser compatability, custom solutions, etc.
For WordPress projects you should focus on templates and not total number of pages. Once you create the 'Page' template, you're not going to have to build it again. So if the user wants to have 100 pages, that's not a development issue (though it is an issue if you are also entering content, so keep that in mind as well).
Unfortunately, nobody can tell you what to charge! If you're just starting out, you'll need to do a few projects before you really find out what you should be charging. Most people charge too little when they are first starting out because they are nervous about scaring prospective clients away with big estimates. This eventually changes when you finish a project and think, "Well, that wasn't worth it." Next time you'll know to charge more.
If you think that this entire project will take you 12 hours to complete, then the simplest formula is:
12 hours x {Your Hourly Rate} = Project Cost
For example, I charge at a rate of $50/hr. So for me it would be:
12 x $50 = $600
For me, it's not particularly worth to get into an entire project for $600 (since I don't freelance full time), so I'd probably charge more to make it worth my time.
I agree with @TheDoc but my rate is a bit different as I am a Letterer not a Developer. Like him, I have a fixed hourly rate that is based on my cost of living (not luxuries). I charge that client my hourly rate for the time it takes me to complete the project + profit. I also charge for licensing as well if needed.