Since I'm creating my new business, I'll have to buy software licenses. And since I don't have much money to spend to begin with, I would like to know if it is realist to think I could work without any Adobe Suite.
I'm a web designer, and my work will focus mainly on creating web sites and print designs.
I was thinking on using Pixelmator and Fireworks instead of photoshop and Sketch & Inkscape instead of Illustrator.
What do you use ? Do you think I'm being realistic ? Should I buy an Adobe (expensive, all the more in france) license and hoping it will show profit in a few months ?
Adobe is the standard for web design, but by all means not the only one. Fireworks is part of Adobe and alot of people use it over photoshop just because Fireworks is designed based around web design as photoshop is sort of morphed into using it for web design. Gimp is another powerful free tool you can look at. Inkscape is also a good alterative...made popular by Linux users. Don't let commercialism change the direction on how you want to style.
renting software is just plain stupid. No cost saving...and do you really think I client that knows what he is getting into will pay for designers software rental. Ummm no.
When you say 'creating websites' do you mean simply designing them, or actually marking them up too? I mostly go straight from rough idea/wireframe/sketch to designing in the browser.
I agree with @springlab. You can't make or ask your clients to do that. It's irresponsible and unprofessional. As a designer, I use Illustrator and Photoshop, that's my style. But I have noticed developers designing in the browser.
I hear you on that. Adobe CS Licenses are expensive, but the software is good for the job. I too use Illustrator and Photoshop, but have used Inkscape and Gimp to get by before I had the resources to get software. Lately though, I've been designing in the browser. Some good free IDE's that I use are Aptana Studio 3 and Komodo Edit. Just work hard and set up your budget to save for the licenses for the software that will make you the most efficient.
First of, I'm working alone, so I'll design web sites from scratch (from rough to publishing). I'm used to design the websites right into the browser (after some sketches on paper of course), but I'm planning on doing so with Fireworks, since I'm being told it's far more efficient and less time consuming.
Actually, right now I'm really used to work with the Adobe suite. That's what I used at school, and then in my previous jobs and when I wanted to practice! It's really the softs that I know the most. So by buying those softwares it would not be because of a trend but because it's necessary. I'm used to work with them on graphic and vector design. And also with indesign for the print jobs.
Still, I wondered if other softwares could do the job just as well, and if paying adobe license fees would be justified. Right now, nobody seems to work without them, even though you say that I *can*. I was hoping some feedback from people that use some alternatives, although your remarks are still really welcome!!
For code, I already found the software I can't work without: Espresso. It's just the right one for me!
As odd as it can seems to you, I never coded html nor css in my life. I'm just a really quick learner (autodidact in fact, I learned qbasic when I was 12) and know quite well print design (it's what I learned in school, along with 3D production). So I tend to apply my knowledge in layouts typo and all to the web, and it seems to work. I learned HTML and CSS in fourth speed during several days and I have to say it's quite an easy language (for the basics at least), and I'm here in this forum to learn the best practices to avoid total mess. Coding is one thing, being rigorous is another !!
So right now, I have yet to learn what program are best for what I'm going to do, and adobe suite seems really to be something recurrent in web designers workflow.
I think it's an industry standard simply because it's hard to duplicate what some Adobe products can do. I think there's no other product like Illustrator and to me it's simply amazing. My suggestion is that you wouldn't need the Adobe Suite. Illustrator would be perfectly fine along with Photoshop for what you do.
Your friends or family couldn't loan you the funds? If you're ready to start accepting clients, use the monthly license until you can afford to purchase it in full.
I loaned money to the state, but I need some of this money for my working capital. I could afford a design premium suite if I could find one for less than 1800 euros.
I was actually wondering if a US suite could work in Europe. I heard that Adobe used to block foreign licenses. Is it still the case ? Because US prices are much more in my budget!!
@dalecooper I see what you mean about getting a commercial license versus a student license. I'm not sure why springlab is having trouble understanding.
My advice is to use the alternative programs to start out with. If you get more work than you can keep up with using these programs, you can probably afford to buy the Adobe suite at that time.
It's simple: Adobe Suites for Student and Professor are limited licenses that makes you in illegality if you sell work created with them. It's clear on Adobe website.
The only license that allow you to sell your work created with Adobe products are the full licenses or upgrades that apply to them.
But yet, I've found Adobe's licenses cheaper than the ones on Adobe Store on amazon. I think I can take one away for between 1500 and 1800 euros.
EDIT: @TheDark12: Well, thanks for this advice. I think I'll consider this option. After all, your right that I can still buy an Adobe suite if I feel the need for it. The only things I'll miss right now are Camera Raw and Bridge...
Well, if I can find someone to buy me a student edition of CS5, I might give it a go ^^
For now, I chose to use alternative software and see how my business go. If I make enough money, I'll seriously consider Adobe. But for now, if anyone is interested, I use those:
-My main software is Fireworks for design, mockups and prototypes. Really strong software even if it seems lacking features at first glance. Have yet to learn all the possibilities on this one !
-Pixelmator and the Gimp as a fallback. They both work very well, and have their own pros and cons. Mainly Pixelmator is a pleasure to use but not so advanced (young even though in v2) and Gimp is a mess ergonomicly but has very nice advanced functions.
-Sketch and Inkscape as a fallback. The first has a really, really nice interface, very intuitive and easy to use, but suffers from lack of feature and serious annoying bugs (but still usable as a main soft) and the later is heavy (X11) but is a really serious alternative to Illustrator (for my use anyway)
-Scribus instead of InDesign. It's a strong software even though some UI designs are real flaws. I can make most of my print designs on it and has really good advanced functions. Intuitive when you know how things work.
-Espresso for web coding. Simple and effecient. I learned to work with it and optimize my workflow with all of its functions. I personaly love it :)
-Raskin is a neet piece of software (mac only) to look for ressources on your computer. Go look on its website to understand the concept.
-And for 3D I use Cheetah, which is simple and plain enough for my use.
Well, with those softs I'm far from reaching 1800 euros and I can work fast enough to work on all projects I'm on.
If I didn't already have CS4 I would start with a sketchbook and design on paper. Then use notepad write all my html and css and preview it all in Google Chrome using the Element Inspector to view problems and code.
Creating Graphics would be the only delima, but it is possible to create a nice site with only CSS.
You could always download the 30day trial of the software you need and hopefully turn enough profit to purchase after.
Yes, it's kind of a frugal but interesting way of working ;)
But when I work I need to like the medium on which I'm working (ie: html editor ...). With only the notepad, it would be really, really dull and I think it would become a chore more than a pleasure ^^
I had a little money to spend, and here I got very nice tools for a few hundred bucks.
But your right on one point I think: trying to do most (if not all) of the graphics with CSS. It's a nice challenge and certainly a very good method !
Oh, and remember that I also do print work, so no CSS here ;)
If it were me, I would spend the money on Photoshop, if that were the only piece of software I owned I could work in almost all design mediums. But for a few more dollars I could get a suite so I would probably spring for that. I've really come to enjoy working in InDesign for print.
i use adobe software but there was a week where i just bought a new mac and didnt have access to CS. i used keynote to create wireframes and some simple graphics utilizing keynote and preview (osx's built in image editor), and did the rest of the work in the browser.
it was really handy at the time for a simple website design, but i highly recommend getting photoshop if youre doing any retouching or silhouetting and illustrator for logo/vector work.
Lots of good feedback already...I would suggest what many have already said.
The entire Adobe Suite is ridiculously expensive!! I would recommend purchasing ONLY Adobe Photoshop...and then get yourself an HTML editor, like Notepad! That's my personal favorite!
I also recommend installing I.E. Tester so that you can test your sites in I.E. That only covers I.E., don't forget to install software to test your sites in Chrome, Safari, and Firefox.
I really prefer Fireworks over Photoshop as the *only* software. That's what I bought and it's really powerful for wireframing, mockups and designing.
Notepad is for windows, and I use a mac. So...
As I said, I already made my choices and bought the softwares. Those that I mentioned before are really well built and useful ! I think they prove that Adobe Suite is not an imperative to work on web and print design.
Coming back to what you said about Photoshop, the software alone is 800 euros. The whole bunch of softs that I bought cost me a bit more than 500 euros. It's clear for me that this was not an option !
If your serious about doing this for a career, I would go with Adobe. I haven't been able to use anything as powerful as Photoshop and Illustrator. Also, if you ever accept a position with an agency, you would be required to know Adobe software. Just take a look at a few job boards.
Are you prepared for business related costs? It sounds like you have very very little funding to work with and I hope that you wouldn't just jump into something without thinking rationally.
If you are working freelance, why do you need legit software? ^^ While you will need to get licensing, you're a starving artist currently. If you'd really like to get affordable Adobe products use the fact that you are/were a student to discount your purchase.
As a matter of fact, I am prepared for business related costs and this is why I have so few money to spend in the software. I had to buy myself hardware too.
I am followed up by a state organization that helps business creators in the beginning process.
It's a long time since I'm not a student anymore. I'm 28 years old and worked in several companies (and had several occupations) before I create my own business.
Maybe I’m missing something, but why all the hate for Adobe’s subscription-based licensing?
I keep hearing people say that it’s more expensive in the long-run, but if you’re used to buying the Creative Suite for both print and web design, and upgrading regularly, I can’t see it being more expensive for almost seven years. Plus, the subscription deal gives you access to everything, and the latest of it. Monthly payments also make tracking cost for software purchases easier for tax purposes.
Besides, even if you do decide to “buy” the applications outright, you never actually own the software, only a license. And technically even that, in some circumstances, could be revoked.
If you are not purchasing Master Suite, the monthly amount is more money in the long run. I can upgrade a Standard license for $299 every year. But, if you need stuff that doesn't cross versions, the sub becomes more affordable.
I'm actually planning on moving over to the sub because of the "upgrade special" that lets you take advantage of $30 a month for the entire collection for the first year. But it comes with added little incentives like a Typekit account, which is a little extra kicker.
Edit: Whoa! It comes with the 'Portfolio' plan. I wish I would have known this before upgrading to CS6 (PS & AI) and the Portfolio plan at the same time.
I think the key here is profitability as mentioned in the original post (... show profit in a few months ?) If start up capital is the problem, why not start with the Creative Cloud (currently at US$49.99 per month for annual or US$74.99 per month month by month. then once you have built up some cashflow from clients, then buy your software.
I assume you like the adobe products and want to use them, it's just the cashola. Is that correct? It's been a few months now, wonder how what you did?
The only one I got is Fireworks, which is good for mockups, opens AI and PS files and has it's fair load of options.
I use Sketch for Vector Graphics, which is very good and well maintained with regular major updates. I like the UI and ergonomics. When I need to do very complex stuffs, I use Inkscape which has a lot of options.
For bitmaps I use Pixelmator, which can do almost anything if you are not afraid to loose all the pre-build layer effects and make them by hand. The UI is slick and the software inexpensive. If I need to come back to a photoshop-like interface, I use Gimphoto, which is Gimp with photoshop menu layout and shortcuts.
I use Cheetah 3D for 3D stuffs, which is very good and really easy to use when you come from 3DSMAX!
Scribus is my InDesign replacement. It's full fledged but has an annoying interface, which needs constant repeating tasks (ie: when you select a new object, you need to re-open the option window you were in while with the last object).
As for content management (bridge replacement) I use Raskin, which really improves my workflow.
Digikam and iPhoto for photo management and manipulation ; MotionComposer for basic flash creaction ; and Coda 2 for HTML editing.
It all costed me far less than an Adobe suite and I grew really familiar with all those tools. I actually like working with them, and not being stuck with Adobe philosophy. I also like being able to contact devs and ask them for new features and have them implemented in the next version (Sketch dev is good for that!).
So that's it I think. Let me know what you think about it ;)
Since I'm creating my new business, I'll have to buy software licenses. And since I don't have much money to spend to begin with, I would like to know if it is realist to think I could work without any Adobe Suite.
I'm a web designer, and my work will focus mainly on creating web sites and print designs.
I was thinking on using Pixelmator and Fireworks instead of photoshop and Sketch & Inkscape instead of Illustrator.
What do you use ? Do you think I'm being realistic ? Should I buy an Adobe (expensive, all the more in france) license and hoping it will show profit in a few months ?
Please help me on this, I'm really torn apart !!
Don't let commercialism change the direction on how you want to style.
Yes, it can work out more expensive in the long term than buying but you COULD include that cost in the quote to the client.
First of, I'm working alone, so I'll design web sites from scratch (from rough to publishing). I'm used to design the websites right into the browser (after some sketches on paper of course), but I'm planning on doing so with Fireworks, since I'm being told it's far more efficient and less time consuming.
Actually, right now I'm really used to work with the Adobe suite. That's what I used at school, and then in my previous jobs and when I wanted to practice! It's really the softs that I know the most. So by buying those softwares it would not be because of a trend but because it's necessary. I'm used to work with them on graphic and vector design. And also with indesign for the print jobs.
Still, I wondered if other softwares could do the job just as well, and if paying adobe license fees would be justified. Right now, nobody seems to work without them, even though you say that I *can*. I was hoping some feedback from people that use some alternatives, although your remarks are still really welcome!!
For code, I already found the software I can't work without: Espresso. It's just the right one for me!
As odd as it can seems to you, I never coded html nor css in my life. I'm just a really quick learner (autodidact in fact, I learned qbasic when I was 12) and know quite well print design (it's what I learned in school, along with 3D production). So I tend to apply my knowledge in layouts typo and all to the web, and it seems to work. I learned HTML and CSS in fourth speed during several days and I have to say it's quite an easy language (for the basics at least), and I'm here in this forum to learn the best practices to avoid total mess. Coding is one thing, being rigorous is another !!
So right now, I have yet to learn what program are best for what I'm going to do, and adobe suite seems really to be something recurrent in web designers workflow.
I really can't afford to put 2000 euros on the softwares. Maybe 1800, at max^^
I was actually wondering if a US suite could work in Europe. I heard that Adobe used to block foreign licenses. Is it still the case ? Because US prices are much more in my budget!!
My advice is to use the alternative programs to start out with. If you get more work than you can keep up with using these programs, you can probably afford to buy the Adobe suite at that time.
Best of luck with your new business!
The only license that allow you to sell your work created with Adobe products are the full licenses or upgrades that apply to them.
But yet, I've found Adobe's licenses cheaper than the ones on Adobe Store on amazon. I think I can take one away for between 1500 and 1800 euros.
EDIT: @TheDark12: Well, thanks for this advice. I think I'll consider this option. After all, your right that I can still buy an Adobe suite if I feel the need for it. The only things I'll miss right now are Camera Raw and Bridge...
Not sure what you don't understand. As of CS5 you can use student versions for commercial use.
Well, if I can find someone to buy me a student edition of CS5, I might give it a go ^^
For now, I chose to use alternative software and see how my business go. If I make enough money, I'll seriously consider Adobe. But for now, if anyone is interested, I use those:
-My main software is Fireworks for design, mockups and prototypes. Really strong software even if it seems lacking features at first glance. Have yet to learn all the possibilities on this one !
-Pixelmator and the Gimp as a fallback. They both work very well, and have their own pros and cons. Mainly Pixelmator is a pleasure to use but not so advanced (young even though in v2) and Gimp is a mess ergonomicly but has very nice advanced functions.
-Sketch and Inkscape as a fallback. The first has a really, really nice interface, very intuitive and easy to use, but suffers from lack of feature and serious annoying bugs (but still usable as a main soft) and the later is heavy (X11) but is a really serious alternative to Illustrator (for my use anyway)
-Scribus instead of InDesign. It's a strong software even though some UI designs are real flaws. I can make most of my print designs on it and has really good advanced functions. Intuitive when you know how things work.
-Espresso for web coding. Simple and effecient. I learned to work with it and optimize my workflow with all of its functions. I personaly love it :)
-Raskin is a neet piece of software (mac only) to look for ressources on your computer. Go look on its website to understand the concept.
-And for 3D I use Cheetah, which is simple and plain enough for my use.
Well, with those softs I'm far from reaching 1800 euros and I can work fast enough to work on all projects I'm on.
Creating Graphics would be the only delima, but it is possible to create a nice site with only CSS.
You could always download the 30day trial of the software you need and hopefully turn enough profit to purchase after.
But when I work I need to like the medium on which I'm working (ie: html editor ...). With only the notepad, it would be really, really dull and I think it would become a chore more than a pleasure ^^
I had a little money to spend, and here I got very nice tools for a few hundred bucks.
But your right on one point I think: trying to do most (if not all) of the graphics with CSS. It's a nice challenge and certainly a very good method !
Oh, and remember that I also do print work, so no CSS here ;)
it was really handy at the time for a simple website design, but i highly recommend getting photoshop if youre doing any retouching or silhouetting and illustrator for logo/vector work.
oh by the way, i got the idea to use keynote from Luke W:
http://www.lukew.com/ff/entry.asp?1155
The entire Adobe Suite is ridiculously expensive!! I would recommend purchasing ONLY Adobe Photoshop...and then get yourself an HTML editor, like Notepad! That's my personal favorite!
I also recommend installing I.E. Tester so that you can test your sites in I.E. That only covers I.E., don't forget to install software to test your sites in Chrome, Safari, and Firefox.
Notepad is for windows, and I use a mac. So...
As I said, I already made my choices and bought the softwares. Those that I mentioned before are really well built and useful ! I think they prove that Adobe Suite is not an imperative to work on web and print design.
Coming back to what you said about Photoshop, the software alone is 800 euros. The whole bunch of softs that I bought cost me a bit more than 500 euros. It's clear for me that this was not an option !
I have my own business, so now I am the one who dictate my way of working.
Let's make money first, and then think about Adobe ;)
http://success.adobe.com/en/na/sem/products/studentandteachereditions/design.html/?sdid=ISGWL&skwcid=TC|22183|adobe%20suite%20student%20version||S|e|6200746942
I am followed up by a state organization that helps business creators in the beginning process.
It's a long time since I'm not a student anymore. I'm 28 years old and worked in several companies (and had several occupations) before I create my own business.
I keep hearing people say that it’s more expensive in the long-run, but if you’re used to buying the Creative Suite for both print and web design, and upgrading regularly, I can’t see it being more expensive for almost seven years. Plus, the subscription deal gives you access to everything, and the latest of it. Monthly payments also make tracking cost for software purchases easier for tax purposes.
Besides, even if you do decide to “buy” the applications outright, you never actually own the software, only a license. And technically even that, in some circumstances, could be revoked.
I'm actually planning on moving over to the sub because of the "upgrade special" that lets you take advantage of $30 a month for the entire collection for the first year. But it comes with added little incentives like a Typekit account, which is a little extra kicker.
The online backup kinda sucks unfortunately.
Edit: Whoa! It comes with the 'Portfolio' plan. I wish I would have known this before upgrading to CS6 (PS & AI) and the Portfolio plan at the same time.
If start up capital is the problem, why not start with the Creative Cloud (currently at US$49.99 per month for annual
or US$74.99 per month month by month.
then once you have built up some cashflow from clients, then buy your software.
I assume you like the adobe products and want to use them, it's just the cashola. Is that correct?
It's been a few months now, wonder how what you did?
The only one I got is Fireworks, which is good for mockups, opens AI and PS files and has it's fair load of options.
I use Sketch for Vector Graphics, which is very good and well maintained with regular major updates. I like the UI and ergonomics. When I need to do very complex stuffs, I use Inkscape which has a lot of options.
For bitmaps I use Pixelmator, which can do almost anything if you are not afraid to loose all the pre-build layer effects and make them by hand. The UI is slick and the software inexpensive. If I need to come back to a photoshop-like interface, I use Gimphoto, which is Gimp with photoshop menu layout and shortcuts.
I use Cheetah 3D for 3D stuffs, which is very good and really easy to use when you come from 3DSMAX!
Scribus is my InDesign replacement. It's full fledged but has an annoying interface, which needs constant repeating tasks (ie: when you select a new object, you need to re-open the option window you were in while with the last object).
As for content management (bridge replacement) I use Raskin, which really improves my workflow.
Digikam and iPhoto for photo management and manipulation ; MotionComposer for basic flash creaction ; and Coda 2 for HTML editing.
It all costed me far less than an Adobe suite and I grew really familiar with all those tools. I actually like working with them, and not being stuck with Adobe philosophy. I also like being able to contact devs and ask them for new features and have them implemented in the next version (Sketch dev is good for that!).
So that's it I think. Let me know what you think about it ;)