'Just starting out' is relative. He could be an industry vet and is only just getting into freelance for the first time.
I'm assuming the opposite is true here, however. It all comes down to your skill level. Talented people charge more than people that aren't as talented. While £25/hour is low, it's not necessarily out of line with his peers.
You'll need to take into account cost of living as well. It's not so black and white.
Having said all of that, James: if you start one more thread asking about how much to charge I am going to blow up the internet.
Extremely low.....? Well maybe its a lot different in the UK then. In my experience, $40 (the equivalent of £25) is low end, maybe average, here in Canada. I've seen people charge anywhere between $25 and $100 here, but most people I know are around $50.
I have had people tell me that most people they meet charge £40 an hour here in UK, however most of the people I have met charge between £20 and £30.
I have heard people say big figures, but really have I found it to be the case is what I am saying. I have just quoted a client at £25 an hour and the client asked me if I could do it for £20. So it just goes to show that even £25 is to expensive for some people.
Perhaps that client is cheap? I agree with negotiating but that still seems a bit low. My rates are completely private but an average graphic designer would be charging anywhere from $75+. I would assume that a developer could charge just as much.
Yes, no I totally agree with the high rates etc, why would I agree to my own poverty?
But it just depends whether there are clients / people out there willing to pay it, if there are I have not meet any of these clients yet however I am quite new to the game.
Set your price based on your skills and experience and if they can't afford it, don't take the job. Cheap clients tend to expect the most for some reason, and many of their requests are outlandish and unreasonable relative to what they want to pay you.
Are you working freelance/whitelabel and hence hourly? (As in is someone reselling your work?) If so, £20-25 is okay for front end.
If you're charging that to direct clients - as in customers coming to you directly to do their website then in my opinion you're charging wrong.
What you need to be charging the customer is the value of the project. What I mean by that is charge them on the basis of their return and their size, rather than on an hourly basis.
Sure - build your hourly rate into a quote to make sure it's covered. But for example, take Amazon and let's pretend they are looking for a designer/developer to redo their website.
How much do you charge? 1000 hours x 25 so £25000? Or, do you charge them £20 Million.
You charge £20 million because - A: they have an expectation about what they should be paying for a project.
B: They are looking for a return on that investment and a redesign may generate them £40 Million in one day. Which makes the £20 Million initial investment peanuts in comparison to their expected return over a year.
I would advise you to move towards this pricing model when doing work directly for clients to make sure that you're making a profit related to the value you're providing to them - not just your hourly rate.
As always - if your quote is way over priced for their expectation or budget you can always come down and negotiate. What you can't do is negotiate upwards!
I wouldn't quite say that explains it... profit, or at least a figure that at the end of the day you make above and beyond your costs, should be a part of your basic hourly calculation. At the end of the day, what you charge is ultimately what value you bring to the table.
I'm with Andy and his position on the project. I learned the hard way why charging hourly is a bad idea in most cases.
@ChristopherBurton: I kinda feel like we're all entitled to share our opinions to help answer the OP's question. Being antagonistic for the sake of imposing your experiences on others as "the right way to do it" doesn't seem like an ideal way to answer the poster's question. Josh's way may not be your way and if it doesn't make sense, try explaining in what ways it doesn't make sense to you. That way, we can all possibly learn something new. :)
An hourly rate is a cost. A website design is not a cost. It is an investment, my suggestion is to charge accordingly.
Until you make the customer realise they're investing in a sales and marketing strategy and not just spending money on pretty things, you're always going to be fighting against people who want to pay you as little as possible.
In general, I would say it's alright.
@jamesbarnsley It is. @Senff is correct that it depends on your skill level and ability but 25 is too low. Why did you come to the conclusion of 25?
I'm assuming the opposite is true here, however. It all comes down to your skill level. Talented people charge more than people that aren't as talented. While £25/hour is low, it's not necessarily out of line with his peers.
You'll need to take into account cost of living as well. It's not so black and white.
Having said all of that, James: if you start one more thread asking about how much to charge I am going to blow up the internet.
I have heard people say big figures, but really have I found it to be the case is what I am saying. I have just quoted a client at £25 an hour and the client asked me if I could do it for £20. So it just goes to show that even £25 is to expensive for some people.
@JamesBarnsley Gray is right with his points also.
Perhaps that client is cheap? I agree with negotiating but that still seems a bit low. My rates are completely private but an average graphic designer would be charging anywhere from $75+. I would assume that a developer could charge just as much.
But it just depends whether there are clients / people out there willing to pay it, if there are I have not meet any of these clients yet however I am quite new to the game.
If you're charging that to direct clients - as in customers coming to you directly to do their website then in my opinion you're charging wrong.
What you need to be charging the customer is the value of the project. What I mean by that is charge them on the basis of their return and their size, rather than on an hourly basis.
Sure - build your hourly rate into a quote to make sure it's covered. But for example, take Amazon and let's pretend they are looking for a designer/developer to redo their website.
How much do you charge? 1000 hours x 25 so £25000? Or, do you charge them £20 Million.
You charge £20 million because - A: they have an expectation about what they should be paying for a project.
B: They are looking for a return on that investment and a redesign may generate them £40 Million in one day. Which makes the £20 Million initial investment peanuts in comparison to their expected return over a year.
I would advise you to move towards this pricing model when doing work directly for clients to make sure that you're making a profit related to the value you're providing to them - not just your hourly rate.
As always - if your quote is way over priced for their expectation or budget you can always come down and negotiate. What you can't do is negotiate upwards!
I'm with Andy and his position on the project. I learned the hard way why charging hourly is a bad idea in most cases.
Until you make the customer realise they're investing in a sales and marketing strategy and not just spending money on pretty things, you're always going to be fighting against people who want to pay you as little as possible.